How to Have A Damn Good Conversation

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My face felt red hot.

It was like I was standing naked in front of my classmates. The back of my shirt clung tightly to my sweaty back. My leg wouldn’t stop bouncing up and down.

I took a deep breath and tried to let my anxieties out…

I was in the middle of a podcast interview and the only thing I could think about was how stupid I must sound.

Luckily, the podcast wasn’t huge, so the stakes were low. But I’ll never forget that sweaty, helpless feeling of not being able to articulate my thoughts out loud.

It’s been 13 months since my first podcast appearance, and since then I’ve had dozens of similar conversations. Most people say it gets easier with time, but it’s not just time, it’s skill, technique, and reps.

Beforehand, I’m still a jumble of nerves, and afterward, all I want to do is curl up in a ball. However, along the way, I’ve picked up a few tools and tricks to help me have an exceptional conversation. While I’m still not a master, these have helped me a lot.

Let’s dive in…

Pre-podcast:

Before any online conversation — whether that be a podcast interview or a casual meet & greet — I like to do my homework. For me, confidence comes from preparation.

I’ve already written a bit about how I do my research in this post, so I won’t get into that too much.

What I want to focus on are two other forms of preparation:

1) Keep a story bank

It’s no secret that storytelling is a powerful way to deliver a message. But most people struggle to tie an insightful lesson with a story that resonates.

Coming up with a story on the spot is the worst, so don’t put yourself in that situation. Keep track of all the Storyworthy moments that happen to you.

Capture anything that emotionally moves you.

2) Prepare your sound bites

A sound bite is a short clip of speech or music that’s designed to promote the full piece. The best public speakers learn to communicate in pithy sound bites.

I was recently listening to the Republican primary debates and all the potential candidates did the same thing:

1. They answered the question with a quick line to make it seem like they answered the question.

2. Then they talked about whatever they wanted to talk about (usually their values or priorities).

Before you go on a podcast, write down 3 key points you want to get across no matter what. These are the 3 core ideas you want new people to know you for.

For James Clear, it may be:

1. A 1% improvement every day leads to a 37% improvement in a year.

2. Good habits make time your ally. Bad habits make time your enemy.

3. Environment is the invisible force that guides all human behavior.

What key messages do you want to get across?

Learning how to speak in sound bites is like learning how to write a concise tweet. When you know how to package your ideas in a clear, concise, and compelling manner — it makes long-form communication much easier.

Podcast:

1) Pause for poise

On the first couple of podcasts I went on, as soon as the interviewer asked a question, I felt obligated to respond immediately. The silence between the question and my response was simply too awkward for me to bear.

But that space between question and response is the most crucial part of answering with an articulate response.

Before you answer a question, ask yourself, “Is this the best way to communicate this idea? Is there a better word, phrase, or analogy?”

Don’t assume the method your brain defaults to is the best method to communicate your idea.

Watch this clip of Elon Musk pausing (and truly thinking) before he speaks:

2) Crank the dial

When we’re nervous, we have the tendency to close up and become monotone. Instead of opening up and embracing that discomfort, we retreat further into our shells.

Instead, imagine you’re “cranking the dial” on your personality. If you’re naturally at an energy level of five… crank it up to a seven.

Don’t just speak, speak with emotion. Don’t just retell a story, blow your own mind. Don’t just explain a framework, explain why it’s so cool.

How you say what you say often matters just as much as what you say.

h/t: Kieran Drew

3) Vary your response opening

When I listened back to my first few podcast interviews, I noticed I kept answering every question with the same response:

“Yeah, that’s a great question… uhm…”

Question after question, same opening. My friend Joe Ferraro wrote that there are three alternative response openings you can try out:

1/ Micro-Macro

Give an immediate response, then elaborate.

Q: What’s the secret to having a good conversation?

A: Preparation. Like many endeavors in life, the more work you put in, the more reward you’ll get out.

2/ Framing

Begin your answer with an outline of what’s to come.

Q: What does your morning routine look like?

A: There are 3 things, that when I complete them, I know I’ve had a successful morning…

3/ Story Launch

Dive right into a story with no context until later.

Q: Why did you start writing online?

A: It was the summer when COVID hit - lonely, bored, and slightly anxious I decided to start a YouTube channel…

4) Vary your response length

There’s a popular graphic about varying your sentence length. Speaking is the same as writing.

If every response is one sentence, you’re boring.

If every response is ten minutes, you’re long-winded.

If every response is unique, you’re engaging.

5) Use the 3S’s

When listening to a podcast Alex Hormozi did with Danny Miranda, I noticed that Alex rarely spoke without hitting one of these three S’s:

1/ Stories

Alex would find a way to tie an analogy or parable into the point he was trying to make like The Story of The Chinese Farmer.

2/ Systems

Alex would name and claim frameworks for an idea like The Solomon Paradox.

3/ Steps

Lastly, Alex would break down concepts into step-by-step playbooks for listeners to easily digest and implement.

Can you package your idea into one of these three S’s?

Post-podcast:

1) Prune your language diet

Humans are language-absorbing sponges. Everything we consume — books, videos, podcasts, conversations — all have a direct impact on the words we use.

Are you listening to compelling speakers? Are you studying how they capture the whole room’s attention? Are you taking note of the stories they use, the pauses they take, and the eye contact they make?

The people I’ve been studying recently:

• Barack Obama
• Simon Sinek
• Steve Jobs
• Shaan Puri

To become a better speaker, study better speakers.

2) Replay the game film

As a basketball player — or athlete in general — one of the most brutal practices we did was watch game film.

It was brutal… and I mean BRUTAL.

Everything you did was being replayed and dissected over and over and over again. But you know what? It made our team a lot better.

Listening to yourself speak sucks. But it’s the price you have to pay if you want to become an effective communicator.

Vinh Giang has a 3-step formula for improving your speaking:

1/ Sight (Play the recording on mute)

• How is my body language?

• Do I look enthusiastic?

• Do I look confident?

• Do I look happy?

2/ Sound (Play the recording but only listen)

• Do I sound boring?

• Is there voice inflection?

• Tonality?

• Is the content I'm delivering adding value?

3/ Sync (Watch and listen to yourself)

• Do my words and body language line up?

• Am I speaking passionately with open body language?

As writers, it’s easy for us to double down on writing and forget about speaking well. But few things are more powerful than learning how to speak clearly. Seek to become a triple threat in video, audio, and writing.

Become a full-stack communicator.

Jay “Become A Triple Threat” Yang